Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunning

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October 30, 2009

Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunning

By: Ina Steiner

Fri Oct 30 2009 030:29:33

To the Editor:
It happened already. It probably should have been expected by the powers that be at eBay but as usual they've done little or nothing to prevent the situation. Yesterday I received a communication from a buyer blasting me for filing an Unpaid Item Dispute "prematurely". He had no idea that his payment was due in 3 days, despite the fact that our Terms of Sale clearly state such in the listing and no idea that eBay was actually going to step up and allow is to enforce that rule.

Why should they? eBay has a long history of letting the buyers procrastinate, delay, and other put off payment in any way possible. From the lack of an expeditious unpaid item process to the lack of actual payment information linked to the disputes themselves, buyers were used to being able to simply state payment was sent or utilize the process as a buy it now, pay for it later (in some cases much later) program.

Now when buyers are hit with an unpaid item dispute they immediately blame the sellers for being overzealous. What, if anything, has eBay done to let buyers know that they are now subject to a 3 day rule on payments? Why, oh why, does the responsibility of "educating the buyer" always fall to the sellers?

With all of the changes over the past few years buyers no longer know what to expect and have no clue what the details of the process are because of the changes. We're still battling the ever-popular "money order" issue because buyers have been led to believe that they can simply "ask" us to accept a money order and that we should take them regardless of our policies and procedures.

eBay needs to step up and take responsibility for education its user base on policy changes.
Kim

Comments (21) | Permalink

Readers Comments

Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunn

by: RicRoe

Fri Oct 30 10:32:44 2009

"Why, oh why, does the responsibility of "educating the buyer" always fall to the sellers?"

That is simple really, eBay does not want to communicate policy changes to buyers.

After all, if they made buyers aware of each and every policy change, buyers might think eBay was treating them like as if they were 'unwashed' buyers.

By making the sellers responsible for communicating policy terms, eBay encourages more discord between buyers and sellers. This also helps eBay achieve their goal of destroying the sense of community across eBay.

eBay wants to be the buyer's friend. eBay wants to tell sellers how to run their business, but wants to remain the buyer's friend and buddy.

Besides, if eBay clearly informed buyers with written notice when they change things, there is nothing to say they will read the notice, the same way they ignore terms in listings.

Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunn

by: Fly On The Wall

Fri Oct 30 10:49:14 2009

To use that overused phrase again..."it is what it is"...

Ebay tends to lean in the direction of...we're the Mall Directors, let the store tenants who have direct access to their customers explain the rules of the road.

Not saying it's right or wrong but...it's the path of least resistance.

With that said, let's see...Buyers have the upper hand in feedback (let's not even open that can of worms)...buyers can now tie up inventory for almost half a month...it's really about time that sellers were thrown a bone here.

This time of year I'm seeing the occasional ebay buyer (those looking for gifts). These are not the same buyer-base that frequent the site year around.

They are also the ones who don't bother with keeping up with the new announcements...

I've always said that the key to operating on the site is communication...that one tool alleviates 90 percent of problems or customer issues.

Sellers who send out email communication to buyers do not face these problems.

The buyers who do take advantage of sellers after knowing the rules of the road are not going to probably pay anyway or know how to "game" the system.

UPI's will always exist...we live in a generation where kids are not always raised to take responsibility for their actions...

Fortunately UPI's are still in the minority.

As a seller, I am happy that they shortened the UPI process. If a buyer needs time, all they have to do is communicate with me and they always get accomodated and we have a large repeat customer trade.

'nuff said...

Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunn

by: Deb

Fri Oct 30 11:11:51 2009

''Why, oh why, does the responsibility of ''educating the buyer'' always fall to the sellers?''

Because when it comes to all negative fall out from a policy ebay creates, ebay sees themselves as a venue at those points, claiming that ebay has nothing to do with the business transaction between the seller and the buyer, that it is the sellers business, therefore, the sellers responsibility to not only let the buyer realize how the auction works between them, but to include educating buyers as to why ebay policy works over all leaving the responsibility of clarity on how a seller must work in order to be in compliance of ebay policy.

What an excuse, we are just a venue! That venue line is getting pretty thin, that excuse certainly doesn't seem pliable much these days.

Why should ebay take the time to educate the buyers? They don't care to educate their employees!

They want them to remain ignorant. The more confusion and blame a buyer can put on a seller for lack of knowledge regarding ebay's BS policies a seller must follow, the more money ebay saves and or makes.

ebay has to leave something up to a seller to let them feel like they are in charge of their ebay transactions.

We are all working for ebay, the masses of drones, when one falls, 10 replace him. Out with the Old who have become wise to the workings of ebay, in with the new who haven't a clue!

eBay likes stupid.....

Every day I list my Antiques & Collectibles with my thousand word explanation on ebay policy educating my buyers with ebay links, postal links, feedback links, I hold my breath and hope a buyer realizes it is for the good of both of us. So far the reaction has been positive, many email telling me they had no idea!

That a seller can't sell if ABC isn't put into place in an order ebay specifies, or the seller is not allowed to sell.

''We're still battling the ever-popular ''money order'' issue because buyers have been led to believe that they can simply ''ask'' us to accept a money order and that we should take them regardless of our policies and procedures.''

The buyer is correct in asking if the seller would accept a money order. I am soooo happy when they do because it is the only open door ebay allows for me to accept them. If a sellers own personal preference is to not accept a money order and they like paying ebay again through paypal fees for getting paid that is their own choice and a buyer will need to understand it is on an individual basis regarding seller terms. But, the buyer is following ebay protocol regarding money orders and checks. We as sellers are allowed to accept them only if asked. We can not however post this question to the listing. In other words ebay allows a seller to accept check & money order but not too much! Again, giving some control of the sellers business to the seller but not too much!!!

If they made it against policy to never except check or money order no matter what, law suits would be flying! Not in this country can I as a business be told that I can NOT except a certain type of payment! I can be told I can NOT solicit it within the VENUE I am using. But if a buyer asks, why would I turn away the sale because a customer wants to pay me with a legitimate form of payment? I would rather not take paypal. My preference.

Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunn

by: What A Maroon

Fri Oct 30 11:24:02 2009

Amazing! One of the VERY few things eBay has done recently that benefits the Seller and you're complaining?? If you don't want to get dunning letters about your 3 day policy - change your policy or change your notification preferences. I can't imagine what you'd do if eBay actually gave the buyer a UPI strike on the 4th day. What's your point? That you're upset eBay is actually putting it's money where it's mouth is, or that Buyers now actually have to comply with the terms of your listing? I'm confused.

Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunn

by: eBay has a bridge to sell you...

Fri Oct 30 12:32:51 2009

I assume this was an auction and not a fixed price, since if it were fixed price the solution is the "Pay Immediately" option. The trade off is not being able to process a multi order but I find people still will but multiple items individually and you can give a partial refund for S&H costs should you wish to attract buyers.

As for the 3 day policy, I would have to agree with what was said above about how did you communicate beforehand. Did you send an e-mail explaining the payment terms clearly right after the auction ended and if so did you send an additional notification 12 hours before the UPI as a reminder?

As for the Money Order vs. PayPal dispute, it's your right to accept what you wish for a payment option. It's best to make it short and clear in the listing (large and bold also helps though I wouldn't suggest multicolor) a simple line stating you only accept PayPal. Don't but the words "Money Order" in your listing, you'll be flagged and lowered in seach just for having the phrase in your listing regardless how you use it.

Part of the problem with many sellers is that they want it both ways. We want total control over our businesses and want eBay to be "just a venue". Well then, one needs to take the responsibility on how to handle their business as much as they can as well.

Stop treating eBay as a community and more like a true storefront and you'll find much more work but also much less headaches in the long run.

Best of luck for a positive settlement.

Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunn

by: Kim

Fri Oct 30 12:42:53 2009

Original letter submitter here - We DO advertise a 3 day payment policy (have for 3 years now) and we DO communicate very effectively with the buyers, both via eBay's auto-messaging systems and via our own auto-generated emails. A lot of people just don't read either one!

I am VERY happy that they have stepped up the process to make it faster, therefore not tying up inventory and expediting our turnaround on UPIs.

Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunn

by: Steve

Fri Oct 30 14:10:53 2009

Suggest you put your payment terms in a more prominent position. Notify the customer of the three-day requirement in your winning bidder email. Also, contact the customer personally before jumping in with unpaid item disputes. A gentle reminder of your payment terms would probably go a long way towards preventing misunderstandings.

Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunn

by: fast freddy

Fri Oct 30 17:08:25 2009

As a seller and also a buyer a 3 payment policy is stupid. You file a uid on the third day you get a fat red donut and no payment period. I have so many ebay ids it wouldn't matter to me. Why so quick on non payment filing.

Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunn

by: 267399

Fri Oct 30 17:36:58 2009

I understand the 3 day policy, especially if you sell seasonal items.

I sold some Halloween costumes and accessories that were never paid for. Talk about tying up inventory--these will now have to wait until next year. If I had used a 3 day policy I could have at least offered second chance.

Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunn

by: ebay seller

Fri Oct 30 18:21:43 2009

I think your in for a lot more negs .The unwritten standard on ebay is 7 days.I send a reminder after 7 days and if they don't pay a alert 5 days later and thanks to the new policy now I only have to wait 5 days to complete rather than the previous 8.Filing a dispute after 3 days is asking for trouble if a buyer doesn't have the money in there paypal account it takes at least 3 days to clear a deposit.Nobody likes to wait for payment but I think you need to use a little common sense ,if you absolutely need quick payments you should set your items for immediate payment.The bottom line is once you piss off the buyer which this clearly will do it's all down hill.I have bitten my tong on many occasions with pain in the ass buyers but the only way to resolve a problem is to act proffesionally .If you get into a pissing contest with a buyer you will lose almost 100% of the time

Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunn

by: Lasik

Fri Oct 30 23:01:42 2009

Here is the problem. Ebay has has made two positive moves in regards to selling in the last few weeks. Sellers have an option of opting out of these changes by going to their site preferences. Instead we get the same old, same old and complain about anything and everything. As a result Auctionbytes could lose credibility being a safe haven for sellers who can't identify good moves vs bad moves and complain about 100% of everything.

Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunn

by: joe

Sat Oct 31 08:23:47 2009

@Lasik

Well the first positive move was showing Griff the exit door in so many words, which 99% of us approved of.

Now, What was eBay's '' second positive move in the last few weeks'' you speak so highly of?

Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunn

by: Lasik

Sat Oct 31 13:02:03 2009

Positive for me, maybe not for you and that is why you can uncheck it in site preferences Joe if it does not work out for you.

I know its hard to watch another eBay seller come on Auctionbytes and actually say something positive about a change. It will make some people steam. With all the poor decisions Ebay has made and there has been many, you have to acknowledge with something may be good. If you don't Joe, it makes Auctionbytes look petty and makes it's member base not credible.

You also have to remember Ebay is not the only channel in town. The obsession with Ebay is fascinating to say the least as their are other venues, shopping carts, marketing ideas that could be tried. There comes a point where it is easier for some to feel constantly victimized without putting any effort into their enterprise to grow it beyond eBay.

Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunn

by: Lasik

Sat Oct 31 13:33:36 2009

I just realized I did not answer one of your questions Joe. The two positive changes in my opinion that happened in the last couple of weeks are:

Exclude shipping locations from your listings by specific country. I have a problem with Mexico and Italy. I have already excluded them in my site preferences.

Recover from a NPB faster to get your inventory back out on the market quickly if buyer does not pay.

How can anybody argue with these changes? It's what most have been asking for for ever.

Joe, are these not positive changes? I would like to know why you addressed my post specifically.

Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunn

by: fruity

Sat Oct 31 13:56:02 2009

That's exactly why I'm sitting this holiday on ebay OUT. Ebay is going to push the mega diamonds and you know if they are anything like that one big seller who didn't have stuff in stock, they're going to raise the blood boil level of these buyers and they will be on edge about everything.

This could be the final coffin on the head on everyone. Plus it gets ebay where they want. They want sellers to react by forcing immediate payment. Thus, the conditioning of the people begins .. again

Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunn

by: L

Sun Nov 1 01:18:27 2009

Is the 3-day unpaid item dunning being phased in? When was it supposed to become effective? It is not yet being enforced on my past due buyers. I have a number of unpaid item buyers ranging from 1 to 20 days . . . . it seems that unless I open an unpaid item dispute, nothing is initiated by ebay. . . . Just as it has always been. . . nothing will happen. . . . I have noticed no change.

I just checked the ebay help menu, looked up "Unpaid Item Process", and there is no mention of it. . . . . the eBay Unpaid Item Policy still reads:

"If a buyer doesn’t pay for an item within 4 days, sellers can open an unpaid item case in the Resolution Center." (No mention of anything regarding 3 days, or automatic dunning)

Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunn

by: NYM Arts

Sun Nov 1 10:33:11 2009

EVERY LISTING specifically states "Pay with PayPal and your full purchase price is covered".
An EDUCATED Seller understands that this Wording is Precisely engineered to avoid Law Suits Against Ebay for its Violation of the Sherman Act that Allows Us to Collect payments in Checks OR Money Orders. And IT DOES GIVE BUYERS THE OPTION to pay by check or money order. We are, however, FORBIDDEN from mentioning this in our listings. This is Communism, of which I will not take part.
My research has discovered Ebay Sellers being banned from the site for accepting (what Ebay considers) a disproportionate amount of Checks and Money Orders as compared to the total amount of their sales.
The fact that PayPal will be splitting off from Ebay is PROOF that the screws are turning painfully tighter against Ebay Management and in Favor of the Sellers. Checks and Money Orders "Make the Auctions go 'round".
I have not sold or bought on Ebay since October 2008, and will continue to avoid the site until our RIGHT to collect payments in Checks and Money Orders, and State this IN OPEN FORUM, is returned. It's the Law.
Seller EDUCATE THY SELF.
I will resume selling on Ebay When they TOTALLY return to the 2001 protocol.
Until then, we will continue to make Jack Donahoe Eat Dirt....sans Sugar.

Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunn

by: joe

Sun Nov 1 19:49:14 2009

@Lasik

First I responded to your post specifically because I could not figure out the two positives about ebay you spoke of, If your post had included them I most likely would not have responded.

Your first positive about excluding shipping locations received mostly positive comments here, the only probelm most had was it should have been made available back around the year 2000 or so.

Your second positive also was received with positive comments here. We had reservations on the way it was being implemented and those reservations are being proven it you had read the letter above. I think if ebay would have a simple sentence like ''THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN GENERATED BY EBAY AND NOT THE SELLER'' along with a link to the policy, then the problems like the above letter would be few.

Also I think eBay has hurt itself with both buyers and sellers, neither trust ebay any longer, they're moving and shopping on other venues, mostly Amazon.

I'll be frank with you Lasik, if ebay management would have run their tests, completed their surveys and published the results here, then accepted a little onjectivity then Jeff Bezos would be crying instead of every seller on ebay...but thats just my opinion.

Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunn

by: Lasik

Sun Nov 1 21:34:16 2009

"Also I think eBay has hurt itself with both buyers and sellers, neither trust ebay any longer, they're moving and shopping on other venues, mostly Amazon."

So how do you feel about the recent changes at Amazon? How are your numbers on Amazon compared to Ebay?

Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunn

by: Joe

Mon Nov 2 09:06:51 2009

@Lasik

Month of October

Amazon 619 sales

Ebay 10 sales
(note: all ebay listing are BIN)

Best Match, Top Seller Rating, and eBay's DSR PUNISHMENT THRESHOLD = Kiss Of Death to Sales in the marketplace.

End Of Story...

Buyer Angry at Seller over eBay's Unpaid-Item Dunn

by: Complain over the real things

Tue Nov 3 12:00:22 2009

If you aren't happy that eBay has AT LAST enabled us to ask for our money before a fortnight has past, then why have you set it up to do so. You have to make filing the dispute an automatically process before it will do so on the 4th day. If you don't want angry clients don't do it.

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